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There used to be a saying,
"The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
and the children's teeth are set on edge"

 

Hello Members of Guardian Angel,
 

My name is Michelle. Me and my fiancee have been doing Bible studies together since the Lent season of this year. When we read the bible, we also did read something I found on the computer that relates to the scripture we are reading. Their are so many different sites that offer studies and they all differ in their views, theories and interpretations. Sometimes this is confusing to both of us, and I believe this could be tainting the true meaning of the scriptures.
 
So my question is, does anyone have any suggestions on studies that dont get away from the truth. I prefer websites that will allow me to print the studies and I may even buy one of the books if it doesnt cost too much. We are currently studying Genesis and the  scriptures on Noah's sons. Speaking of that....
 
I have another question. My fiancee who is African American got concerned when reading about the curse on Ham's desendents. Since the black race seems to have come from Ham lineage, my fiancee has been wondering if this same curse has fallen on him. If anyone can help us with this, I would appreciate it also.

God Bless everyone and have a good day.

Have a blessed day! And please Pray for us!

Michelle

Quick Question !

Q: Does the phrase "sins of the father" mean that the spiritual or emotional burdens of previous generations, unknown to the recipient, can be passed down to succeeding generations?

A: No one can pass down to others their personal sins. We say that the original sin of Adam and Eve is passed down through the generations, but original sin is not the actual fault of the recipient. Rather, its effect is the privation of grace and the loss of original innocence that our first parents had.

Likewise, one can pass the effects of one’s sins through generations. Let’s say that someone is an alcoholic. His original choice to abuse alcohol could have disastrous effects on his family that can last for generations, including influencing his children and grandchildren to abuse alcohol. This is not because they are guilty of their father’s sin but because dependency on alcohol is the only way they learned to deal with problems. In that way one can say that the sin of the father has been passed down through generations. It is not the actual fault that is passed down but the consequences of the original sinful choice.

 

 

Ezekiel 18

The Soul Who Sins Will Die
 1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
       " 'The fathers eat sour grapes,
       and the children's teeth are set on edge'?

 3 "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. 4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son—both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.

 5 "Suppose there is a righteous man
       who does what is just and right.

 6 He does not eat at the mountain shrines
       or look to the idols of the house of Israel.
       He does not defile his neighbor's wife
       or lie with a woman during her period.

 7 He does not oppress anyone,
       but returns what he took in pledge for a loan.
       He does not commit robbery
       but gives his food to the hungry
       and provides clothing for the naked.

 8 He does not lend at usury
       or take excessive interest. 
       He withholds his hand from doing wrong
       and judges fairly between man and man.

 9 He follows my decrees
       and faithfully keeps my laws.
       That man is righteous;
       he will surely live,
       declares the Sovereign LORD.

 10 "Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things  11 (though the father has done none of them):
       "He eats at the mountain shrines.
       He defiles his neighbor's wife.

 12 He oppresses the poor and needy.
       He commits robbery.
       He does not return what he took in pledge.
       He looks to the idols.
       He does detestable things.

 13 He lends at usury and takes excessive interest.
      Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he will surely be put to death and his blood will be on his own head.

 14 "But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:

 15 "He does not eat at the mountain shrines
       or look to the idols of the house of Israel.
       He does not defile his neighbor's wife.

 16 He does not oppress anyone
       or require a pledge for a loan.
       He does not commit robbery
       but gives his food to the hungry
       and provides clothing for the naked.

 17 He withholds his hand from sin 
       and takes no usury or excessive interest.
       He keeps my laws and follows my decrees.
      He will not die for his father's sin; he will surely live. 18 But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.

 19 "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

 21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

 24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.

 25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear, O house of Israel: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. 27 But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life. 28 Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Are my ways unjust, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

 30 "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!





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COMMENTS ZOOM  
God didn't curse Ham or his descendants
by Ruth Mendonsa on 9th Aug, 2008
Hi Michelle, God didn't curse Ham or his descendants, Noah cursed Cainan. There used to be a saying, "The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge". God rejects this proverb and further states that whoever sins is the one who pays, not their descendants( Ezekiel 18:1-4). Also in Exodus 20:5 God says, "visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me". People tend to gloss over that part about "them that hate me". Unless your fiance hates God I don't think he has anything to worry about.
 
be alert and pray to God
by Francis Pereira on 9th Aug, 2008
God has taking an example of this so dont take any studies that you and your fiancee may go off track, take care and be alert that what you are doing, God forget our sins and blessed us all the way
 
Father bless you!
by Laura on 9th Aug, 2008
Hi Michelle,
That is so wonderful that the two of you are reading and studying the Word together, may Father bless you both with understanding. I would recommend buying the Strongs Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible for your studies, it's a must to gain in depth knowledge of the language the Bible was written in (unless you know the Hebrew & Greek language already!). It' s around 35 bucks new, you might could find an used one at Amazon or Ebay way cheaper. It takes every word in the Bible to the original language it was written in. You would need a KJV Bible also. It will help the two of you to not go astray when reading what others interpret the Scriptures to mean.

Always ask for knowledge & understanding from the Father before studying too,the Spirit will guide you to the truth!

That being said, this curse of Ham thing, your fiancee need not worry about. The African race was not the result of Hams sin, I don't care who says otherwise, it' s just not so! Ham laid with his mother and Canaan was the result of that sin. "Noah" cursed Canaan for that. You can read in Lev.18:7,8 and 20:11 to understand this unnatural sin he did. Of course at this time it was not the law. The first 6 chapters of Genesis is totally awesome,of course the whole Bible is but there is so much more in there when taken back to the original language. You can also find a Concordance online but it's nicer to have the book right there! If I can be of any help, please email me, May Father bless you both,
Laura
God made all the races and He said it was good!
 
Praise God!
by Lucy Noronha on 9th Aug, 2008
Praise God, Michelle,
When r u in Jesus nothing can affect us not even the sins of our ancestors, parents. even the satan can't touch us unless we give him permission. (only remember never b the reason of tears in someone elses eyes) when we r with Jesus, he is there with us & where there is Jesus there are crores of angels, Mother Mary is present, Saints r present all we require is faith to believe that He is there. Jesus say old is gone & new is come. Behold i m making all things new.

Take Care,
 
Faith comes by hearing the word of God!
by Vincent and Suzan on 9th Aug, 2008
Many people are destroyed for lack of knowledge… Faith comes by hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17). If you don’t know what the Word says about anything, how can you have faith for it. Faith moves God. Faith is believing it before you see it, not afterwards. That would require no faith.

There are some simple questions that you need to be asking yourself.

1. Have you done every thing that you possibly can do to seek God? The Word of God says “seek and ye shall find.” So let’s get rid of any hindrances so that we can receive of God.

2. Are you washing your mind in the word of God daily? (Ephesians 5:26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

3. Are you praying in the spirit? (Jude 1:20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

4. Are you praying without ceasing? (1 Thessalonians 5:17) Pray without ceasing.

5. Are you standing on the word of God? (Ephesians 6:13) Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. (Galatians 5:1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

6. When you have a special speaker, do you bother to show up? How can God bestow wonderful things on you if you can’t be bothered to show up for church? (Hebrews 10:25) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
 
Reading
by Newton on 9th Aug, 2008
An alternative to reading all these differing interpretations is of course just to live your life and see what life has to reveal to you and beyond all the symbolic analogies. You cannot get any more true than real life experience; and albeit that you do not get it all in one go. Also when it comes to analogies, likeness, symbolism etc then the only way you can know what is true or false about it is to already know that thing from your own experience. You then know who is talking nonsense and who is telling it as it is. So, there are alternative routs, paths, avenues of approach if all the seeming contradictions get in the way. The two best things to study really are yourself and life. Life will reveal to you what life has to reveal to you – but not all at once.
 
TRUST IN JESUS CHRIST
by DOMNIC on 9th Aug, 2008
DEAR MICHELLE, CHRIST JESUS CAME INTO THIS WORLD TO BLESS AND NOT TO CURSE . HE HIMSELF CARRIED OUR SINS, CURSES, SICKNESSES IN HIS BODY SO THAT WE MAY HAVE LIFE. BY HIS WOUNDS WE ARE HEALED.
 
JESUS HAS ALREADY SET YOU FREE FROM THE CURSE
by DOMNIC on 9th Aug, 2008
DEAR MICHELLE, DON'T MEDITATE ON THE PAST. EVEN IF THERE IS A CURSE IT IS FOR OUR OWN GOOD. ALWAYS KNOW THAT CHRIST HAS REDEEMED YOU FROM THE CURSE OF LAW AND SIN AND WHATEVER IS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. AND WHATEVER IS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IS GONE AND BE OF GOOD CHEER , CHRIST HAS ALREADY SET YOU FREE. IN JEREMIAH 31:2 THE LORD SAYS, "I HAVE LOVED YOU WITH AN EVER LASTING LOVE." IN JOHN 10:10 JESUS SAYS THAT I HAVE COME THAT YOU MAY HAVE LIFE, AND HAVE IT MORE ABUNDANTLY. JESUS SAYS THAT I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS SO THAT MY JOY MAY BE IN YOU AND YOUR JOY MAY BE COMPLETE.
 
READ MORE ABOUT JESUS
by DOMNIC on 9th Aug, 2008
DEAR MICHELLE, REMEMBER THAT GOD LOVES YOU. INSTEAD OF READING ABOUT CURSE AND LAW READ MORE ABOUT JESUS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOR AND REDEEMER. READ MORE ABOUT THE PROMISES OF CHRIST AND STICK TO IT DON'T HEAR OTHER THINGS.
 
BELIEVE IN JESUS
by DOMNIC on 9th Aug, 2008
DEAR MICHELLE, JESUS SAYS IN MATTHEW28:20,"I WILL BE WITH YOU ALWAYS EVEN TO THE END OF THE AGE."JESUS ALSO SAYS IN HEBREWS 13:5 " I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU."
 
hams
by Reuben Carron on 10th Aug, 2008
Dear Michelle,
History is a subject that go backwards, and science is a subject that goes forward, as we christians believe the bible is our book of instructions, take what you can understand, now that you are more interested in ham, just think what you were more concerned of previously, it something forgotten, carry on in believing in god for god does not curse anyone, its society that divides people.
 
Hello Michelle
by Jerome franklin saldanha on 10th Aug, 2008
Your answer lies in Galations 5 v16--26 and ask someone to pray over your Husband and to say whilst praying to wash away the sins of the parents, grand parents and ancesstors with the Precious Blood of Jesus and ask him to ask God to forgive them for all the wrongs that they have done and to allow them to live in the presence of God, God Bless you both.
 
Curse
by Rohini on 10th Aug, 2008
The Blood of Jesus has washed away every curse
 
hi Michelle
by Anthony on 11th Aug, 2008
hi Michelle what i would say first is that believe in your self. the same thing happened with some one and their daughter was in the hospital and they were told that their daughter was suffering for their sins. and then i had to find an answer for that and the answer is read in the bible John chapter 9, where Jesus gives sight to a blind man, who was blind from birth. every one has a role to play to reveal Gods greatness in this world. That's all i have to say. God Bless
 
Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
by Savinia Mascarenhas on 11th Aug, 2008
Matthew 4:17 - From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Jesus started His ministry on earth with the same message people had heard John the Baptist say "Repent of your sins". The message is the same today as when Jesus and John gave it. Becoming a follower of Christ means turning away from our self-centeredness and "self" control, and turning our life over to Christ's direction and control!
 
Understanding the scriptures
by Lawrence on 11th Aug, 2008
Hi Michelle,
My wife and I (and our children have joined in along the way) have been reading the Bible through from beginning to end now for about 28 years. All the information for understanding the Bible is in the Bible. The purpose of a Bible teacher is to show you how to arrive at the truth yourself. The real teacher is the Holy Spirit. Any human teacher who makes his services essential for understanding the scriptures would be a good one to avoid. I perceive that the various opinions concerning scripture interpretation is because people are consulting the opinions of teachers rather than going back to the source of truth, the Bible.
 
BE STRONG - GOD LOVE`S YOU.
by Veronica on 12th Aug, 2008
God Bless you Michelle,
I feel that God is on your side, He Guide you now, even you have so many questions in your mined for me that part of our life.... make sure that our faith to him are strong. GOD is so GOOD everything you want to know our creator is there always ready to face our our questions and there is no impossible to him that`s what i believe. Have faith and PRAY everyday.... continue reading the Bible... for me Bible is my daily bread..... I pray for you..
 
Jesus is the answer for the world today.
by Sebastian D'Souza on 12th Aug, 2008
Dear Michelle,
I have gone through your queries and I prayed so that God would give me insight to answer. First of all I understand that you and your fiancee is not saved. You'll have not committed your life to Jesus. People because they are born in christian family and taken baptism (child baptism) they think that they are saved which is wrong. First of all one should think that everyone who is born in this world irrespective of religion all are sinners. (Romans 3:23) And being sinners everyone has to repent and and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. And everyone will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for everyone and their children and for all who are far off-for all whom the Lord our God will call. (Acts 2 : 38-39.) Everybody irrespective of his or her religion thinks that he or she is a child of God which is a white lie. Devil has deceived them. Unless one commits one's life to Jesus and accepts him as his or her Saviour that person cannot become child of God. First,both of you commit your life to Jesus. Say this prayer "Lord Jesus we come in your presence. We accept that we are sinners.We believe that you died for my sins. Lord jesus forgive my sins and wash my heart with your precious blood and cleanse me and make worthy to become your child Thank you Jesus for forgiving my sins and accepting me as your child. Lord Jesus give me your Holy Spirit which you have promised. Thank you Jesus for giving the Holy Spirit to me. I commit my life to you and accept you as my Saviour. I promise that I will read your word everyday and live as per your instructions given in your word.Lord once again I thank for everything you have done in my life.Amen." Once you have done this,now you are a child of God. This right you got it as per his word.(John 1 : 12) Holy Spirit is a great teacher. He will teach you everything.(John 14 : 26) You need not ask anyone to teach you. There is no greater teacher than him in this world. Trust him and rely on him because he is God. I along with my wife and four beautiful daughters are following Jesus and reading his word everyday for the last 29 years. Two daughters along with their spouses serving the Lord in Goa and two daughters along with their husbands are serving the Lord in Denmark.Word from Bible is our main spiritual food. Feed your soul with that food.Remain in Jesus because he is our vine and we are his branches.Without him we can do nothing. If you watch different websites you will be more confused.Don't do it. Regarding curses on your fiancee I would only say that since you have become child of Jesus, believe that for all the curses Jesus has paid the price and set your fiancee free. No more curses, no more slavery. You are free indeed. Hallelujah. Rejoice and sing for Jesus has become your God also a Saviour and Lord. No more pain, no more tears. Rejoice in the Lord always and again I say rejoice.Rejoice, Rejoice. Contact me for further detail if needed. God be with you'll. Bye.
 
Deliverence from the bondage of curse
by Rajshree Menon on 12th Aug, 2008
Dear Michelle,
Curse & being governed by the law is all from the old testament as the 1st Adam had invited the curse of God by eating the forbidden the fruit. But of you have read the Holy Bible you will have seen that when Christ gave His Spirit the curtain in the Temple of Jerusalem was torn which indicated that we have been freed from all the old curses and law. Remember Christ died to redeem us from all our sins & curses. he is our Salvation & our Hope in resurrection. God Bless you & just have faith in the Word & ask the Holy Spirit to guide you & all your confusion will be put to rest.
 
Wrong advice.
by Sebastian D'Souza on 12th Aug, 2008
Dear Laura,
I have gone through your piece of advice to Michelle. First of all you don't know bible. Secondly you are under wrong impression that Ham laid with his mother. I wonder which bible you are reading. Over that you say that you don't care what people say. What a arrogant statement it is. God forbid. Don't you know that God resist the proud and gives grace to humble? I think you have committed sin by saying that Ham laid with his mother which he never did. Man commits sin in three ways. In thinking, in words and deeds. You have done in words. Poor Ham ,he must be watching from heaven. Ham saw his father Noah lying naked and instead of covering him, he went and told his brothers. That is the sin he committed for which Noah his father cursed Canaan, his grandson and not Ham. Everybody who reads your advice will laugh at you.And by advising Michelle wrongly, instead of helping her you are putting her into more confusion. Please say sorry to God for thinking wrong about Ham and also to Michelle for giving wrong reference. God bless you and enlighten you for future. Bye. Read what Vincent and Suzan have written and also by Lawrence. I love such people.They are the true witnesses for God.Thank you and God bless you.
 
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